WEBVTT	#Elemental Media Engine(TM) 2.17.0.603167

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Some of the big supermarket chains

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are now supporting a controversial

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tougher on crime proposition

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on the California November ballot.

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If Prop 20 passes, it

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would rollback some criminal justice

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reforms at a time when the

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Black Lives Matter movement is

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fighting for even more reforms.

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L.A. Times reporter Suhauna Hussain

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wrote about why the grocery

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companies are backing the measure

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and the backlash from critics.

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Hi Suhauna, always great to have

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you.

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Hi.

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Good to see you.

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Tell us what Prop 20 would do.

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Yeah. So Prop 20,

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which is on the November ballot,

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would increase penalties

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for shoplifting and make it

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harder for those convicted of

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certain nonviolent property

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and drug crimes to get

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early parole.

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So kind of more specifically

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with relation to

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shoplifting and that kind of thing.

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It would allow thefts of property,

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more than 250-dollars

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to be punished as felonies,

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which could increase the amount of

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time people convicted of shoplifting

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crimes serve.

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And it would also create two

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new categories

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of crime, serial theft

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and organized retail theft,

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which could also be charged as

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felonies and result in

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time of up to three years.

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So how did we get here?

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What's the history on this?

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In recent years,

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California has moved to reduce

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its prison population.

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It was ordered by the Supreme Court

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to lower the number

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of people in its prisons just

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because they were so crowded and

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there were so many of them.

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And so they, California

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started on this like wave of

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reforms, including

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Proposition 47

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in 2014.

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And Proposition 47

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kind of reduced the penalties

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for some crimes.

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And then one,

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a few years later, it made

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it easier for people to get

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early parole.

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So it moved in the direction of, you

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know, more rehabilitation

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and parole and less strict

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penalties.

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But kind of when that happened,

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law enforcement started

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to say that crime was

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on the rise and grocers

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kind of joined them, launching

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a campaign in 2018

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to to

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roll back some of these recent

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reforms.

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Thank you, Ralphs and Safeway,

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for standing with us against

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violence and abuse.

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As America confronts injustice, why

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are corporations and police unions

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pushing an initiative to massively

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increase prison spending, slashing

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rehabilitation programs and victim

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support?

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And that's the effort that we have

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on the ballot this November.

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All right. So the grocery stores and

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some law enforcement are saying, oh,

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there's these organized rings of

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grocery thieves and

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our shoplifting numbers are spiking.

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What data are they using?

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Yeah. So so the data

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is not super

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conclusive.

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I think there are two studies,

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one by the California Institute

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of Public Policy, and they

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found that there is no link

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between increases

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in crime and the measures

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that have been passed in recent

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years, like Prop 47.

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With respect to larceny and and

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certain theft, there are a little

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bit more question marks.

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But

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a UC Irvine criminologist

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says that she

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wasn't able to find sufficient

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evidence that the two

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were linked.

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Basically, what they're saying is

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that, you know, correlation

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is not causality, right?

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I mean, there could be spikes in

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unemployment that contribute to

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this. There could be, you know,

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recessions that contribute to this.

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And you can't just say it was,

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we passed this proposition, and

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that's the reason that there is a

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spike, right?

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Right. I think that's what

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researchers are saying.

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I think one thing to note

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is it is,

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they do say it's possible that

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in some like localities,

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maybe there are increases

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in crime.

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That could be a result, but there

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isn't evidence to show that yet.

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And on the whole, violent

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crime in California has

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not increased as a result

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of these measures.

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Suhauna, what grocery stores are

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participating?

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Which ones are trying to get this

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thing passed?

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The two biggest ones are Safeway,

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which is the same company that is

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owned by Albertsons and

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Ralph's, which is owned by Kroger.

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So those are the two grocery

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stores with the biggest donations.

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They each gave about 100-thousand.

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It's important to note that

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grocers are not the biggest

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backers. It's primarily law

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enforcement groups and that sort of

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thing. But grocers were sort of

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early partners in this effort.

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And Costco pulled out its support.

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Right?

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Costco gave 50-thousand

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in 2018.

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And then when I checked in with them

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about that donation date that they

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had previously requested, a return

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of their funds, they wouldn't

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explain why or when

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they decided to revoke their

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support.

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Curious, you know, the timing of

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it all, given that we're talking

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about judicial reform

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and we're also in a pandemic and

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we're also in a recession.

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Just real quickly, you did tell the

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story of one man who

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was convicted of shoplifting

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a couple of bottles of liquor and,

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and then waving a box cutter when he

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was chased and he was sentenced to

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three consecutive life terms.

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And the people

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on the criminal justice side say

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that shouldn't be and that

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this is not a prop they'll support.

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Thank you so much, Suhauna.

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Thank you.